Sophie Gavriloff: “In the world of live entertainment, changing user trends mean changing products”

Since June 2021, Sophie Gavriloff (EDHEC Grande École 1997) has been Director of the spectator experience & marketing at the Opéra national de Paris, after a career in brand positioning in sectors as diverse as mass retailing and leisure. After 6 years working on commercial development at the Crazy Horse, she is now focusing on sales tools for the legendary stages (and buildings) of Opéra Bastille and Palais Garnier, while carefully preserving the soul and reputation of this cultural institution in the capital which boasts 800,000 spectators and 750,000 visitors each year. Sophie believes in the power of the arts to transform the world. We discussed live entertainment in the 21^st century, looking at opera, ballet and symphonies.

How would you sum up your current position and responsibilities?

My primary mission is to find audiences for our events via marketing, acquisitions, the technical dimension of sales and ticketing. I’m also responsible for the spectator experience: before they arrive, during the experience itself (reception, checks upon entry, placement, parking) and afterwards (relationship marketing, managing customer requests). We also manage relationships with our partners who conduct guided tours and run the restaurants, bars, etc. 

What does a spectator expect when they purchase a ticket for an opera, ballet or concert?

The spectator who has never been to the Opéra de Paris will at once expect everything and nothing since they have no reference. They might imagine that it will be long, complex and intimidating, but once they’ve made their purchase, they expect to enjoy a wonderful evening, one that will remain in their memory. Someone who already knows us appreciates being called on the phone, the familiarity, and will expect reception staff to have good knowledge of the programme. They’re looking for the “ultimate experience”. Expectations also depend on the nature of the show, it’s very multidimensional. We see real differences between audiences at a ballet and lyrical performances, those who come for classical or contemporary works, those who attend Bastille or Garnier. Then you have fans of Wagner who come every time the composer’s music is performed, or fans of certain singers. Perhaps seeing the new conductor Gustavo Dudamel in action might be a motivating factor. Overall, people expect an evening that will stimulate all of their senses, leave a lasting impression and fuel their creativity and vision of the world.

With the aim of encouraging them to return, because the programme of events changes regularly …

Exactly, we try to get them to come back for performances that mean something to them. We have a whole programme of targeted relationship marketing with this in mind. Recently, in Massenet’s Manon, there was a section that was more choreographed than in other operas, so it was an opportunity to target ballet enthusiasts who had already attended operas and may not have thought this performance would interest them. We create bridges between choreography and lyricism and vice versa, bridges between Bastille and Garnier. We try to introduce audiences to different types of work, other locations and periods. Although spectators have their own preferences, they retain quite a “broad scope”.

Is there a typical spectator journey?

Everyone has their own Opéra de Paris experience. We notice that people generally begin with a ballet at Garnier, to discover its heritage. They then move on to Bastille for its acoustic qualities, the excellent visibility and productions on a grander scale. Spectators come through one door and we then steer them through a whole wealth of experiences and programmes. Before they walk through that first door, they may wonder whether they understand the codes, whether they have the education for all this. People don’t really say so, but they do ask themselves many questions about their capacity to experience the evening properly. But you’ve just got to take the plunge, and you learn as you go along. Gradually you develop a taste for it. The experience is a necessary condition but not sufficient in itself, because a disappointing experience can really leave a trace and discourage people from returning. 

Has marketing stopped being a taboo word in the world of subsidised live entertainment?

I would say so, yes, and I hope that marketing has stopped being a taboo word full stop! I think generally there is greater awareness that it needn’t carry negative connotations, given the huge diversity of offers and the different types of behaviours. It’s common sense: reconciling demand and supply in the simplest way, as clearly as possible, to encourage the act of purchasing. It means deploying all resources to generate a sale, which will then generate another, because everyone is satisfied with the transaction. More than anything, marketing is about our capacity to understand our audiences. The starting point is their expectations and desires. Marketing is just there to place an offer that suits them on their path. Nowadays, spectators use apps, influencers and forums to gather information. Entertainment halls have worked out that they have to reach out to them along their customer journey.

There’s also the question of filling seats, which implies the need to “professionalise” practices …

Indeed, we face the challenge of capacity which has to be aligned with commercial objectives: 2700 seats at Bastille, 2000 at Garnier, and then there’s the Amphithéâtre Bastille, the Studio and guided tours. New ways of selling require new approaches. The world of live entertainment doesn’t escape this rule, just like the worlds of B2B and luxury a few years ago. The takeaways from the world of consumption have become essential for anyone who wants to sell a product when supply outstrips demand. In Paris there are more than 700 live shows every evening! Capturing people’s attention has become a key objective. When I arrived at the Crazy Horse, assisted notoriety stood at more than 90%, while spontaneous notoriety was less than 20%, which means that people know you but don’t think of you. They won’t go to the Crazy Horse that evening, but would like to go there at least once. So you quickly understand that the goal is to be as visible as possible, and the trick is to find triggers. The Opéra de Paris is lucky enough to be able to offer 300 shows a year, but it’s also a challenge because that requires accompanying audiences so they can understand the shows, the sequences, the cast, exactly what it’s all about (for newly created pieces). There is such a mass of information out there nowadays that one must emerge at the right time in order to be seen, provide the right information, attract people and make the whole process more fluid, simpler, available on mobile devices of course, and make sure there is no perceived risk. You need relationship marketing staff that are up to the task, to reassure customers about what comes next in the adventure, otherwise people won’t take the plunge.

What do you say to people who say the opera is too expensive?

It’s always very personal to say whether it’s too expensive or not, especially when we are talking about an experience and someone who has never come before. But I would say that there are seats at very affordable prices, that you can come to the opera with a budget of between €15 and €50 and still get a decent view. It also depends on what’s at stake for you. People often perceive the opera as expensive, but there’s a whole range of prices. The seats that are snapped up as soon as tickets go on sale are the most expensive and the least expensive. Some people want to be in the front row and are willing to spend what they have to. Prices are adapted depending on performances, their duration, complexity and nature. And there are various initiatives like the ticket exchange and cancellation platform. There are many different ways to come to the opera at a price that matches what you’re looking for. Price should no longer be an obstacle.

How do you manage live entertainment, heritage and an online platform alongside one another?

We distinguish very clearly between visits to Palais Garnier (during the day) and shows which operate with two separate ticket offices – on the same site – because the two marketing targets are different. We are developing immersive visits and working on child-specific experiences, and we present heritage in different ways with audio guides and unaccompanied visits. As for the shows themselves, we are creating content specifically around each work. On the Opéra chez soi platform, some content is developed to create a link with the opera in a different way. This enabled us to maintain our artistic connection with the public during lockdown, with operas actually performed on stage but with no audience. And now it’s possible either to re-watch major classics or enhance your experience with complementary pieces or linked to performances presented on stage. Opéra chez soi is at once an extension of the experience and a place of education in the right sense of the term. Customers can use it to prepare their visit to the opera, and they will also find summaries of shows backed up with images.

How do you foresee changes in live entertainment in the years to come?

People are less willing to make the journey, they are more selective, there is less of a natural gravitation towards concert halls and some reluctance to attend in person. The question we are all asking ourselves is whether this is all just circumstantial or structural. My impression is that this will depend a great deal on our capacity for renewal. For the ballet La Bayadère, in late April we organised a day for families who had never been to the Opera. The initiative was met with huge enthusiasm: families showed up an hour in advance and watched a video conference with the ballet teacher and Dance Director Aurélie Dupont. Audiences come to us and are thrilled if we manage to tell them some good stories. It’s still possible to promote the unique experience of live entertainment on stage. Once they’ve tasted it, people want more. Ensuring as many as possible come to entertainment halls to experience that emotion, that vibrancy between the audience and artists, that’s what gives my work meaning. Although practices are developing when it comes to consuming culture online, I can’t imagine they will ever replace that. People found it hard to accept that cultural locations were closed because of Covid, many links were stretched to breaking point.

What are the strategies pursued by the Opéra national de Paris to give audiences an “appetite” to attend?

We are exploring many questions about the duration of performances, the nature of the work, and how to talk about shows. I find it interesting that artists are expressing themselves more and sharing their experiences on social media. For us this involves the ballet, with Étoile dancers transmitting their passion up close to members of the public. I think the right path to follow is to make contact with spectators through the desire we manage to instil in them so they come and see us for themselves. That involves influencers, but also sharing the experiences of other spectators. We need to reconsider the way the public sees how we work: ask ourselves what appeals, what raises questions, to ensure a programme that most accurately reflects that. These efforts now take place even more outside the walls of the opera. We need to penetrate the public sphere in every possible way to combat preconceptions and exercise our profession as marketers with the right show at the right price at the right time and through the right channels.

Does this transformation also involve a more interactive experience from a marketing perspective?

We haven’t yet achieved our full potential when it comes to personalisation and feedback on customer experiences, in contrast to other locations or brands. We need to inspire people, give them information and what they’re looking for. That means understanding them, knowing which shows they’ve already seen, what speaks to them. It’s not very innovative technologically speaking – the Big Five have been doing it for years –, it’s above all about data, and the world of live entertainment is lagging far behind. Ticketing tools have become very sophisticated, which adds a layer of difficulty in terms of e-commerce, where purchases are relatively accessible. Our marketing teams are smaller and gravitate less naturally towards that type of world. Scheduling operas requires planning 3 years in advance, but ticketing tools are subjected to government contract regulations. And so we regularly have to issue calls for tenders for our service providers, which forces us to work over specific timeframes. Changing user trends mean changing products, both in the shows themselves and especially our capacity to make them attractive. What makes marketing jobs so fascinating is that everything is constantly changing: habits, practices, tools, solutions, platforms. At the moment, for example, we are using social media to answer questions from spectators, with a platform that serves to divide up the questions by type. And there are many more things we can do. We are having to reconcile an experience that has been around for 353 years with today’s users. 

More information about the 2022-23 season at the Opéra national de Paris