Interview with Maud Sarda (Masters 2005), Co-founder and Managing Director of Label Emmaüs

When she joined the Emmaüs movement back in 2010, Maud Sarda (EDHEC Grande École 2005) discovered a structure that reflected the values of solidarity she had always held dear. In 2016, she created Label Emmaüs, a cooperative that helped this societal project move into the era of e-commerce. Now with a second-hand marketplace boasting 2 million items (from decor to refurbished high tech), 2 warehouses (in Seine Saint-Denis and Lot-et-Garonne) and 1 training centre, Label Emmaüs is pursuing its mission in parallel with its hundreds of stores located across France. Here we discuss how it embodies a conviction in support of the social & solidarity economy (SSE) with a view to changing our awareness of the way we consume.

How would you summarise your current position and responsibilities?

My current position involves ensuring the continuity and survival of an activist enterprise with about 50 employees. In 9 years, this is without a doubt the most challenging obstacle we have had to overcome, beyond introducing the necessary change when Label Emmaüs was first launched. I endeavour to put as much energy into my role as the head of a business (budget and HR issues, holding steady in turbulent times) as into our ceaseless efforts to engage in advocacy. This lobbying allows us to move the goal posts, change perspectives and amend laws. You really need to have strong faith in what you're doing, as there are many unfavourable winds, but it's a passionate fight.

Where do these unfavourable winds come from?

We are not living at a time when courage and political vision are aligned with our struggles. It's not easy to see through legislation even when it seems self-evident, such as the anti-fast fashion law. There has been real regression in terms of responsible consumption. Over the last 9 years, particularly during COVID, I have seen times when consumers were looking for alternatives in a much more earnest way (and we made great gains in terms of visibility). Now we're seeing a kind of resignation: people are giving in to the appeal of low-cost, throwaway consumption without really asking any questions. Recently, for my daughter's dance display, all the parents rushed out to buy costumes on Shein and Temu, as well as trying to save as much as possible on delivery costs. It's a difficult realisation, but history seems to be struggling to head in the right direction. We're not seeing enough commitment from companies or individuals who have had the good fortune to be highly educated.

What is lacking in teaching to open up this perspective? 

Role models from the youngest age to show that another form of enterprise is possible. Other commitments can also be made through staff initiatives and entrepreneurship. The system won't shift on its own, and the small few heavily involved in the SSE certainly can't do everything themselves. At all levels, in every position, recruitment must be more inclusive, and companies need to create foundations. In higher education and the institutions training the elite, it's all very well to have a chair dedicated to the SSE, but it's above all through teaching that you can tackle commitment! If you’re lucky enough to reach a position with responsibility, you can effect change. Nowadays, there's a whole economy instilled with meaning – and it's recruiting. The co-op model is perfectly compatible with objectives of financial gain. It can contribute to re-industrialization and help employees take control of their business.

Are you seeing more students take this step? 

Students from engineering and business schools are increasingly leaning, like us, towards issues that expose them to other realities. But only a minority of them truly take the plunge into the SSE when they graduate. People often tell themselves that they'll pursue a “traditional” career for 10 or 20 years and change later, but making that shift is extremely challenging when you've become accustomed to a certain standard of living. And it's not always easy to seek re-employment. I chose to join Accenture when I left EDHEC to reimburse my student loan in 5 years and then head off on a 1-year mission with the Accenture Foundation. That experience unlocked many doors for the future awaiting me. I then gave up 30-40% of my salary when I joined Emmaüs, but I could afford to at the time because I didn't have any children. The SSE means fighting for a vision of equality and fairness in our society. And I think many of us working in this economy manage to earn a perfectly decent living.

How does Label Emmaüs remain “competitive” in a world of e-commerce behemoths while maintaining its founding values?

Since the beginning of this adventure, we have enshrined in our articles of association the requirement that 100% of profits be invested in reserve funds that cannot be shared and that our salary scales run from 1 to 3 times the minimum wage. This adventure is intended to be entrepreneurial and radical from every point of view. If we replaced our after-sales staff, who are on labour market reintegration schemes, with AI, or our warehouse staff, who were previously cut off from employment, with robots, what we do would no longer have any meaning. We don't even consider rethinking our fundamentals. The reason we have survived is because we have remained consistent since the outset. We try to be as competitive as possible, with incredibly talented people in charge of communication, marketing and IT development. We are also lucky enough to have many partners, companies that invest and commit. It's just that the competition is unbridled.

Is Label Emmaüs structured along the traditional lines of e-commerce, with product categorization and recommendations? 

When we first launched, Amazon was the one dictating the tempo of e-commerce. We couldn't very well show up with flowers in our hair and do things differently. So we endeavoured to be quite similar, bearing in mind the preconceptions about Emmaüs, which still today is often compared to the role of the rag-and-bone man. A great source of pride for us is that of our 100,000 customers, 9.2 out of 10 would recommend us to others. But it's imperative to maintain clear red lines so as not to fall into the catastrophic practices so often adopted in e-commerce: pick-up points are preferred over home deliveries, as well as geolocation so people can order from places close to home; our products come from local circuits, donations made in France, and we don’t deliver abroad – we haven’t even considered internationalisation as an option because it wouldn't be consistent with a model of eco second-hand items built on an ethos of solidarity; we only send out one basket prompt; and we don't offer deliveries in just a few hours but try not to go beyond 4-5 days. 

Do your 2 logistics platforms and the training centre enable you to favour local businesses and have a real impact?

When Emmaüs launches an economic activity, it’s always with a view to supporting job market reintegration and the environmental transition. So we approached e-commerce just as Emmaüs does “physical” trade: with people on rehabilitation schemes, who had been cut off from employment and whom we want to help find their place and return to a life of dignity through work and training. We seek to inspire and show people that it's possible to carve out their own path. We first launched our marketplace and then one year later our first warehouse, which consolidates our existing model. One year later came our school, as we realised that we could use the marketplace to train people. We wanted to go even further in terms of skills certification, and our school now recruits staff from work-study programmes. When Label Emmaüs was launched, we had 400 sales outlets across France. And so we transformed the change in scale by changing the scale of our impact on the public mindset, and in particular on the economic, financial and political powers that be.

Does this professionalization enable the SSE to leave behind its perception as being “marginal”?

Yes it does. I joined the Emmaüs movement after time spent in extremely “professional” spheres. When I arrived, certain things unsettled me somewhat because the approach to work and the tools used weren't the same. At first glance, it may have seemed rudimentary compared to more traditional economic sectors. But in reality, the SSE is clearly the milieu in which I was most blown away by the entrepreneurial vision, resilience and innovation. Label Emmaüs is ultimately no different from a traditional Emmaüs. It's just that the tools used are not the same. They have lorries and showrooms, we have a website. What is really modern about all this, is that they invented the circular economy before it was even a concept! What's more, it's a societal model about sharing wealth and power and living in harmony. It's a model that can save our democracy.

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